Moving Toward Manhood

David Gergen, editor-at-large of U.S. News & World Report,
 engages Geoffrey Canada, social pioneer and author of
 "Reaching Up for Manhood."

DAVID GERGEN: You’re regarded as a social pioneer. Your first book, Fist, Stick, Knife, Gun is a minor classic today. And now you’ve written in Reaching Up for Manhood about young boys trying to reach fatherhood, trying to reach manhood. Tell us about the streets. What’s going on out there today?

GEOFFREY CANADA, Author:" Well, you know, when I began to really think about the challenges our children face and how difficult it is, I don’t think people really grasp how hard it is to be a poor child locked in an inner city, totally cut off from the rest of society, but surrounded by it, passing through it, sort of anonymously, with people sort of looking and feeling not connected to it at all, feeling that instead of having all of these opportunities, what you really have are values that you’re not going to overcome. And I began to think about how much more difficult that is for young children today and some of the reasons why and in particular for boys. People have a sense that girls were really doing bad in this country, and people began to focus on girls--you have to take your daughters to work--we have to do something for these girls. But I look at these boys, and the consequences of poor boys when we don’t do a good job is that they die, they go to prison, and they are maimed and scarred for life. And so we look around and we see a country with more than 1 million young men under 18 who have been arrested, men leaving their families by the millions, boys growing up without any fathers. You say, how did this happen? It is because we are not doing a good job with these boys. And I’m telling you, these boys are in a lot of trouble in our country.

DAVID GERGEN: They seem to be--

GEOFFREY CANADA: Particularly in the inner cities.

DAVID GERGEN: Tell me, what do we do about it? How do we get to them? How do we stop that cycle?

GEOFFREY CANADA: Well, I think that we’ve missed some real opportunities with these boys. You know, we’ve sort of glossed over some things, and there’s one of the things that I know we need to do is get young boys reconnected to men. You know, so many of these boys have grown up without fathers. They don’t have a role model. You know, when I was growing up, the role model--you know, when you were a young boy, he said, listen, if you want to be a man, you have to learn how to take it, learn how to make sure that you never cried, and you didn’t go to your mother, and you were willing to fight. We thought that meant being a man! We thought being promiscuous meant that you were a man. We thought if you could drink a bottle of wine, that you were a man. It is so much more dangerous for boys today because there aren’t any role models around for them. There’s some 15-year-old telling a 12-year-old what it means to be a man, and these children are really growing up under so much stress. They’re growing up believing that they have to fulfill these sort of fantasies about maleness, which no one could fulfill, and they’re failing. And these children right now need to be connected to men. They need loving men and not just mentors. And I talk about mentors, and we need mentors, but mentors do not replace a responsible adult who loves you, who disciplines you, who’s there when you’re afraid at night, who’s there to really talk to you about school and work. That’s what young boys need, and we have to figure out a way to get uncles and cousins and other folks re-involved with these young people for long periods of time so these boys have role models on what it means to be a man.

DAVID GERGEN: You say in your book you have to change the message too, they’re getting the wrong message.

GEOFFREY CANADA: Young boys are getting messages constantly about sex, alcohol, tobacco, clothing, sneakers, stuff that means absolutely nothing when we really look at what it means to be a caring, responsible father, a real responsible adult in today’s society. All of the message of young people is get it now, do anything for it, right now; you don’t have to worry about later. So kids aren’t learning how to work; they’re not learning how to work hard and sacrifice. The kind of things that I think when I talk to the folks who make it, mostly all of us, we had jobs; we worked hard; we had to save our money. That’s how we really grew up. All the messages young people suggest is you can get all of that stuff quick and easy, and there’s a shortcut to it, and young boys need to really be taken by the hand and be told there are no shortcuts; this is about hard work; and you have to do it for a long time to make it in life.

DAVID GERGEN: Sounds like a message of tough love.

GEOFFREY CANADA: I think it’s partially tough love and also we have to get re-involved. You know, some of these kids have no love in their lives at all right now, and we need to make sure that we not only give them the good, solid, love, and support they need, but the tough love that says to them that you’re going to be held responsible, but I’m going to help you, I’m going to hold your hand; I’m going to make sure that when you are crying, there’s someone wiping those tears out of your eyes, picking you up and saying you can do it, try again.

DAVID GERGEN: Out there on the streets when the country has "this national dialogue about race," how much of a difference is it making on the streets?

GEOFFREY CANADA: I will tell you, it’s not making any difference on the streets at all. The young people I work with, they don’t even know this debate is going on. They live in these segregated communities which are, you know, they seem to be integrated when you begin to look, but when you really see what happens in Harlem, you have black kids going to black schools, connected totally to one another and not at all to the outside world, they feel like this is a hostile world to them; they feel like this is a racist world to them; they don’t feel like anybody’s talking about these issues of race. And I think this conversation is happening at a level that’s not involving these young people at all. They’re totally alienated right now to what’s happening in America!

DAVID GERGEN: What’s the hope of rebuilding a family structure in these communities so that they do have a father?

GEOFFREY CANADA: Well, I think that we’ve got to get the message to boys about fatherhood. And, you know, we’ve been spending a lot of time telling boys not to get girls pregnant and so on, but we haven’t taught boys how to be fathers. And if you’re not involved with that child very early on, if you in that first three months of that child’s life, you’re not directly supporting that child and with that child and making that bond, you don’t feel a bond for that child six months later, and you’re able to walk away feeling like you’ve done no great big thing. We’ve got to teach boys how to care and nurture children. And that needs to be done early. People are afraid if we do that, (a) will it impact their masculinity? Of course not. But let a boy play with a doll and everybody has a heart attack, right? What does that have anything to do with masculinity? It teaches young people how to nurture. Will it make young people want to have children? No, it won’t. It will just simply teach them the skills necessary for them to become good parents.

DAVID GERGEN: Geoff, tell me about your own personal experience because this must be a one by one saving the child. What has it been like for you? Tell me about some of the boys you’ve been working with.

GEOFFREY CANADA: Well, you know, it really is one by one. Anyone who wants to do this work has to understand that with it goes love. But you know what the problem is, you love these kids and sometimes you can’t save ‘em. Just about--you know--maybe five weeks ago one of my kids--I have a group of kids I call my own sons and daughters. I spend time with them. We do all of the good stuff. He was just one of the best kids. He sang on the church choir; he worked; he was going to school. They shot my son, killed him, and for nothing. A couple of kids with guns--we tried to figure out what happened. No one knew. I will tell you all of us, the whole group of us that consider ourselves a family, we felt so bad it was just hard to deal with that pain. The kid was only 20--such a good boy--life wasted. I’ll tell you what happened. All of us tried to figure out what could we do to make a difference--this young man, his name was David Chen Joseph, and my young--other young boys his age that are part of this family--are kids I raised--they were devastated. I mean, as a man, it calls out--you loved this person--they’re taken from you--it calls out for revenge. What do you do when you feel like there’s nothing you can do? You know what we could do, we could cry. That’s all we could do. We could cry and we could not give up because, you know what, what they said to me, he was a good boy. He played by the rules. He did everything you told him to do. He didn’t pick fights. He went to school, he went to church, and look, he still died. Why should I do this? Why should I invest all my energy--why not take all of the chances and do all of the things and have a good life now--because you can’t count it’s going to last. We’re dealing with the fact that, no, even though we’ve lost ‘em, you still have to do these things, is really a lesson I think that was really tough to really work on with my boys but, you know what, they’re dealing with it. And you saw them do this day by day, and I pray for those kids every night.

DAVID GERGEN: Do you think you can save a couple of them?

GEOFFREY CANADA: We’re going to save some. We’re going to save some. I’ve seen some go off to college, and, you know, they come home from college, and I’m just so happy to see them; I’m happy to see them go out of Harlem, to college, and away and off those streets. I’ll tell you, it’s been real wonderful working with the ones who really made something out of their lives.

DAVID GERGEN: Geoff Canada, thank you for joining us. And good luck.

GEOFFREY CANADA: Thank you for having me.